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Lady Anne
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PostSubject: Horrible Histories   Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:32 pm

Fanfic is full of examples of historical misunderstanding, particularly when you get into the distant past--that ancient time before say, last week.

Here are some of the most WTF I've seen:

Titanic:

Jack and Rose boarding a jet in 1912 (commercial jet travel didn't come about until the late 1950's; commercial air travel of any kind wasn't around until the 1920's, and then only for the well-to-do).

Mary Sue wearing a miniskirt on the Titanic--and no one blinking an eye.

Mary Sue fucking all the officers--and being cheered on.

Jack hearing Rose's voice in a movie in 1925 (the first talkie was in 1927).

Jack calling 911 in 1917 (911 did not exist until the late 1960's, and then only in limited areas).

Jack and Rose taking a trip to France for fun in 1917 (lots of people were going to France in 1917, but they were there for the war, for the most part; WWI pretty much brought European tourism to a standstill, and nobody in their right mind would take their children on a tour of an active war zone).

Jack and Rose dancing to disco music at their wedding in 1912.

Everyone congratulating Rose on her out-of-wedlock pregnancy.

Jack and Rose living together without benefit of marriage--and no one blinking an eye.

Any songfic using a song written after the year it was set in.

Pirates of the Caribbean:

Jack Sparrow examining a color photo of Mary Sue--in the 1700's. (The first photograph was taken in 1825, the first photograph of a person in 1839, and the first color photography came about in 1908).

Jack Sparrow fighting alongside Benjamin Franklin and George Washington in the American Revolution in France in 1917. :suspect:

Across the Universe/Hairspray/Mad Men/Outsiders/Anything Else Set in the 1960's:

Cell Phones
CDs
E-mail
Internet
My Chemical Romance and other modern bands
Open and universal acceptance of homosexuality
21st Century Movies (not originals of remakes)
"Ive nevar herd of the cold war"
"Ive nevar herd of Vetnam" (I've never heard of Vetnam, either, but Vietnam--half my male teachers growing up were veterans.)
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Keith Fraser
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:44 pm

Quote:
Mary Sue fucking all the officers--and being cheered on.


What, literally?

"What ho, she's just teabagged Mr. Lightoller! Good show, I say!"

Quote:
Jack and Rose taking a trip to France for fun in 1917 (lots of people were going to France in 1917, but they were there for the war, for the most part; WWI pretty much brought European tourism to a standstill, and nobody in their right mind would take their children on a tour of an active war zone).


Quote:
Jack Sparrow examining a color photo of Mary Sue--in the 1700's. (The first photograph was taken in 1825, the first photograph of a person in 1839, and the first color photography came about in 1908).

Jack Sparrow fighting alongside Benjamin Franklin and George Washington in the American Revolution in France in 1917.


:bang: Some of the others are vaguely forgivable, but those three are just sad.
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Chaltab
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:27 am

To be fair, there are so many anachronisms in Pirates of the Caribbean that it might as well be an alternate history world.

I'd contribute more, but since my main fandoms tend to be 'modern, only with better technology' I don't really have much to say.
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KJM
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:27 am

Quote:
Jack Sparrow fighting alongside Benjamin Franklin and George Washington in the American Revolution in France in 1917.

Please tell me you made that up.
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Pierre Gringoire
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:27 am

Aubrey/Maturin
-Women being captains in the Royal Navy in the early 19th century.
-characters with names like Samantha and Brianna in the early 19th century.
-The existence of photography.

Les Miserables
-The Amis being contemporaries of the French Revolution

Notre Dame de Paris/Hunchback of Notre Dame
-Asians being in medieval Paris
-Women wearing short skirts without any adverse reaction
-Girls running off to join the Gypsies, without being rejected and ejected.
-Medieval Paris being clean
-The majority of Parisians being literate.
-Women talking back to people in authority without consequence.
-Minorities being regarded as equals.
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Lady Anne
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:31 am

KJM wrote:
Quote:
Jack Sparrow fighting alongside Benjamin Franklin and George Washington in the American Revolution in France in 1917.

Please tell me you made that up.

Don't I wish. No, it was in a fanfic a student printed out when I was working in a middle school library. Since they aren't supposed to print fanfic, I confiscated the papers--after I stopped laughing.
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Miss Prince
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:47 am

Lady Anne wrote:
KJM wrote:
Quote:
Jack Sparrow fighting alongside Benjamin Franklin and George Washington in the American Revolution in France in 1917.

Please tell me you made that up.

Don't I wish. No, it was in a fanfic a student printed out when I was working in a middle school library. Since they aren't supposed to print fanfic, I confiscated the papers--after I stopped laughing.


They actually had a rule about printing fanfic?

I would never have had the courage to pull up fic in a public area D:

Quote:
Open and universal acceptance of homosexuality


Have you seen this in a Hairspray fanfic, or was it one of the others, because for some reason this makes me intensely curious. Who do you slash/femslash in that movie/musical/musical movie?


Last edited by Miss Prince on Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lady Anne
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:48 am

Miss Prince wrote:
Lady Anne wrote:
KJM wrote:
Quote:
Jack Sparrow fighting alongside Benjamin Franklin and George Washington in the American Revolution in France in 1917.

Please tell me you made that up.

Don't I wish. No, it was in a fanfic a student printed out when I was working in a middle school library. Since they aren't supposed to print fanfic, I confiscated the papers--after I stopped laughing.


They actually had a rule about printing fanfic?

I would never have had the courage to pull up fic in a public area D:

There was a rule about not printing anything not school related.
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Miss Prince
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:54 am

Whoa, you replied while I was editing.
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myeerah
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:58 am

Lady Anne wrote:
KJM wrote:
Quote:
Jack Sparrow fighting alongside Benjamin Franklin and George Washington in the American Revolution in France in 1917.

Please tell me you made that up.

Don't I wish. No, it was in a fanfic a student printed out when I was working in a middle school library. Since they aren't supposed to print fanfic, I confiscated the papers--after I stopped laughing.


Did you laugh in the student's face?
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Jenny Islander
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:06 am

A LOT of slash runs into this. Do people really not know that in the lifetime of the current U.S. president, it was still possible to be involuntarily committed to an insane asylum on the basis of having voluntarily had homosexual sex with a fellow adult? Or that you could also be charged and convicted as a criminal purely for said acts? Where are the angsty love stories based on experiencing The Love That Dare Not Speak Its Name? No, the only people who are opposed to two men sleeping together are the evil harpies who seek to keep them apart. (Never mind lesbian love. It doesn't exist except in fics labeled PWP. Even though it achieved grudging social acceptance in some parts of the English-speaking world much earlier than being (gasp! shock!) exquisite.)
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Chaltab
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:13 am

KJM wrote:
Quote:
Jack Sparrow fighting alongside Benjamin Franklin and George Washington in the American Revolution in France in 1917.

Please tell me you made that up.

This could actually be awesome if played with the tongue firmly planted in the cheek.
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Harley Quinn hyenaholic
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:08 am

Pierre Gringoire wrote:

Notre Dame de Paris/Hunchback of Notre Dame
-Asians being in medieval Paris
-Women wearing short skirts without any adverse reaction
-Girls running off to join the Gypsies, without being rejected and ejected.
-Medieval Paris being clean
-The majority of Parisians being literate.
-Women talking back to people in authority without consequence.
-Minorities being regarded as equals.


The Hunchback of Notre Dame was set in 1482. To each of those:

* Even Middle Easterns in Paris were rare, and you certainly wouldn't be popular.
* The gypsies were not the rebellious, wonderful people in the Disney film. Try to integrate yourself in their society and you'd be asking for a serious hanging, even if you got very far.
* Medieval Paris was just like Medieval London (only French) in that there was filth everywhere. People had a tendency to throw their garbage into the streets. And their shit. And absolutely everything, in fact.
* Only the VERY well-to-do could read and write, and even then women wouldn't always be taught. Members of the clergy could also read and write but they learnt to do so with the Bible.
* Unless you were married to somebody FABULOUSLY rich, talking back to a man would land you a flogging, or maybe a ducking, and a day in the stocks. These were days when women couldn't even own property.
* Minorities were looked down on by pretty much EVERYBODY. And if you didn't look down on them you would be considered one of them, and you'd be looked down on too.

And another thing about medieval times - swearing casually, especially regarding the name of God, Satan or any saint, would get you a flogging. Occasionally, if the words were chosen right and the situation was appropriately shocking you might be let off, but do it more than once and you'd likely be accused of witchcraft.

Not believing in God would get you accused of witchcraft and you probably wouldn't even get a trial.

Hell, even a woman living alone was enough to risk allegations of witchcraft.

Standing up for a witch would risk you being seen as a witch yourself. Asking why a witch wouldn't use her witchly powers to survive wouldn't count, since water, food and fire was always blessed. Trials were based on the fact that if you were innocent God would provide a miracle.

Many of the trials for witchcraft were not easily passed. If you survived them. In the Late Middle Ages, you'd even be tortured until you confessed and few people would blink an eyelid.


Last edited by Harley Quinn hyenaholic on Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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ZoZo
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:13 am

Marauder-era Harry Potter fanfics are a goldmine for this. In the mid 70s everybody had internet access, mobile phones and liked bopping to Avril Lavigne, apparently.
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Keith Fraser
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:29 pm

Harley Quinn hyenaholic and Pierre Gringoire wrote:
Hunchback of Notre Dame stuff


To be fair, the Disney movie is presumably (I haven't seen it) set in, well, Disneyland. So if someone sets a fanfic firmly within the context of the movie (rather than the novel), as I'm sure most authors do, then they're arguably justified ignoring the reality of 1482 Paris.
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Melissa
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:34 pm

ZoZo wrote:
Marauder-era Harry Potter fanfics are a goldmine for this. In the mid 70s everybody had internet access, mobile phones and liked bopping to Avril Lavigne, apparently.


And reading The DaVinci Code. And wearing baggy pants.
Y'know, before Deathly Hallows came out, I wrote a couple of Marauder-era song parodies. The songs I parodied were "Summer Lovin'" and "Look At Me, I'm Sandra Dee" (Renamed "Look At Me, I'm Tunia E".) from the musical Grease. (I tried to do something with "Greased Lightning", having the Marauders sing about a broom, but it didn't work out.) I replaced a lot of the 50's pop culture references with 70's pop culture references. Twiggy, Elton John, and the film Jaws just to name a few.
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Harley Quinn hyenaholic
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:39 pm

Keith Fraser wrote:
Harley Quinn hyenaholic and Pierre Gringoire wrote:
Hunchback of Notre Dame stuff


To be fair, the Disney movie is presumably (I haven't seen it) set in, well, Disneyland. So if someone sets a fanfic firmly within the context of the movie (rather than the novel), as I'm sure most authors do, then they're arguably justified ignoring the reality of 1482 Paris.


Yeah, but they have this horrible tendency to Disnefy it even worse.

Have you ever seen Hunchback of Notre Dame 2? It's like pulling out your own TEETH. And that's not just because everybody in the original was supposed to be dead. DTV is the worst thing EVER. I mean, EVER. It's like having period pains in your eyes. And your brain.
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Delcat
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:07 pm

Keith Fraser wrote:
"What ho, she's just teabagged Mr. Lightoller! Good show, I say!"

That reminds me, is the Anatomical Impossibilities thread back up yet?
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Keith Fraser
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:58 pm

Urk, that's me being innocent for a change. Rolling Eyes I was assuming 'teabagging' meant the act of taking the nutsack into one's mouth, not getting someone else to do same. *blushes with innocent maidenly modesty*
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Pierre Gringoire
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:13 pm

Keith Fraser wrote:
Harley Quinn hyenaholic and Pierre Gringoire wrote:
Hunchback of Notre Dame stuff


To be fair, the Disney movie is presumably (I haven't seen it) set in, well, Disneyland. So if someone sets a fanfic firmly within the context of the movie (rather than the novel), as I'm sure most authors do, then they're arguably justified ignoring the reality of 1482 Paris.


True, and I'm a little more willing to grant leeway for people writing in the Disney fandom, but there comes a point when I just have to put my foot down.
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Lady Anne
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:11 pm

I just got a PM from a fanbrat who wants me to post her story on my website. I read it over, and discovered that alcohol is illegal in the United States.

Yes, Prohibition was never repealed in this author's world.
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Hot Cancer
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:21 pm

Quote:
Jack Sparrow fighting alongside Benjamin Franklin and George Washington in the American Revolution in France in 1917.


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Rabid Badger
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:19 am

Lady Anne wrote:
I just got a PM from a fanbrat who wants me to post her story on my website. I read it over, and discovered that alcohol is illegal in the United States.

Yes, Prohibition was never repealed in this author's world.


When I was a kid (mid-late 1960s) most towns had 'Blue Laws' that forbade bars from opening on Sunday. I can also remember when you had to buy anything stronger than beer from a liquor store or in a bar-grocery stores having liquor sections was unheard of. And that wasn't that long ago.
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Rydain
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:06 am

Rabid Badger wrote:
When I was a kid (mid-late 1960s) most towns had 'Blue Laws' that forbade bars from opening on Sunday. I can also remember when you had to buy anything stronger than beer from a liquor store or in a bar-grocery stores having liquor sections was unheard of. And that wasn't that long ago.

It's still like this in the anal time warp of Pennsylvania. Only bars and state-run stores sell liquor. You generally can't get beer at the grocery store. There's one convenience store in Altoona that sells beer, and a local grocery store managed to get a beer permit because of some restaurant-related loophole. As long as the cafe is open, you can buy beer at those cash registers only. Not through the normal checkout, although it's the exact. Same. Damn. Store.

A while back, I encountered people protesting against the entire notion of selling alcohol in the grocery store. Judging from their signs, they seemed to believe that its proximity to food would hurt children. I shit you not.
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible Histories   Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:47 am

Rabid Badger wrote:
Lady Anne wrote:
I just got a PM from a fanbrat who wants me to post her story on my website. I read it over, and discovered that alcohol is illegal in the United States.

Yes, Prohibition was never repealed in this author's world.


When I was a kid (mid-late 1960s) most towns had 'Blue Laws' that forbade bars from opening on Sunday. I can also remember when you had to buy anything stronger than beer from a liquor store or in a bar-grocery stores having liquor sections was unheard of. And that wasn't that long ago.


These laws are still in play in Rhode Island (maybe a few other States). I remember I was really surprised when I first noticed that other states had alcohol in their grocery stores.
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