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Reepicheep-chan Important Person


Join date: 2009-06-12 Age: 26 Location: IN A SEXY NEW CONDO
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:51 pm | |
| | Sakurelf wrote: | | Maybe it's because I watched the show so young, or maybe it's just because of the cartoon style (along with characters who have unrealistic features, like blue hair) I never truely assigned Brock a race. I'm not saying he was / is white with tanned skin, I literally do not see him as any sort of race. He's just Brock. (Enough jokes have been made about his eyes anyway) | For me it was like Brock is, visually, just a chrater type that shows up in anime sometimes. I think the intention was for him to be of a darker-skinned asian group, like Fillipeno or maybe Chinese.
Picking out who is what race in anime is often futile, anyways, what with all the blue-eyed, blonde, pale-skinned japanese chicks all over the place. If you start compairing feature of different asian ethnic groups against each other some of the choices make some sense... like Japanese people are among the palest asian people so the fact anime often depicts them the same skin tone as white people makes sense. Their eyes tend to be bigger/ more 'open' than the Chinese, the ethnic group to which they are probably most often compaired, so the huge eyes can be explained that way. The hair colors are often abstracted just to create variety, like, violet, blue, and green are sometimes used to represent different shades of black, a distinction someone coming from an ethnic super-group where pretty much everyone has dark hair would be more sensitive to.
(TL:DR of above: the Japanses may seen dark-skinned and squinty-eyed compaired to white folk, but they are pale-skinned and wide-eyed compaired to other asians)
Blonde and red hair can be used to denote a white person or a mixed-race person or a girl who dyes her hair (which is sort of a character trope in anime, a girl who dyes her hair blonde in Japan is sort of like a girl who dyes her hair pink in the states). Sometimes though it is just a color that the creator picked because they liked how it looked. I think the rainbow colors that dominate anime today started as choices that had story-related reasons behind them, but when brightly-hued anime became popular the visual style just got copied over and over.
Err, that is all pretty tangental... I just find anime interesting because it is easy to see the characters as being white when most of them are not. I tend to assign races to characters now based on a set of visual cues I had to learn when I first started watch anime in Jr. High. When I first started watching it was a mix of non-assigning race due to visual and contextual confusion or tending to think of the characters as white because characters who looked the same way in a western cartoon would be considered white. |
|  | | Summercorn Sporkbender

Join date: 2011-08-18
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:40 am | |
| About the name Blaise. There was a cartoon that ran in Britain for many years, called Modesty Blaise. She was a girl who was found with no memory and was called Modesty. She chose the name Blaise herself later, after the tutor of Merlin in the Arthurian legends. (Yes, the wikipedia entry linked above taught me that bon mot).
I wonder if it was this which led to many fans believing that Blaise was a girl's name. It could be that people assumed Modesty Blaise was like, say, Kangaroo Jack and that Blaise was her first name.
Just a thought.
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|  | | Lady Anne NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-06-12 Age: 35 Location: The land of the fruits and nuts
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:39 pm | |
| There was a female character named Blaise on the cartoon Beverly Hills Teens. |
|  | | Summercorn Sporkbender

Join date: 2011-08-18
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:57 pm | |
| | Lady Anne wrote: | | There was a female character named Blaise on the cartoon Beverly Hills Teens. |
Good call. It's far more likely that Potter fans would have got the name there, rather than Modesty Blaise, which went to the wall so long ago, I barely remember it and most Potter fans wouldn't have even been a twinkle in the father's eye.
So Blaise is a unisex name then? Like Nick or Sam? |
|  | | Exodia's Right Leg Shitgobbling pissdrinker


Join date: 2009-08-05 Age: 26 Location: Niggertown, HUAHUEHUAland
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:37 pm | |
| [quote="Reepicheep-chan"] | Sakurelf wrote: | Err, that is all pretty tangental... I just find anime interesting because it is easy to see the characters as being white when most of them are not. I tend to assign races to characters now based on a set of visual cues I had to learn when I first started watch anime in Jr. High. When I first started watching it was a mix of non-assigning race due to visual and contextual confusion or tending to think of the characters as white because characters who looked the same way in a western cartoon would be considered white. |
The huge eyes come from the art style, which comes way back from Tezuka (and, by extension, Disney). The Japanese don't need to assign stereotypical 'racial' features to themselves in their own cartoons because they already see themselves as the default. |
|  | | Reepicheep-chan Important Person


Join date: 2009-06-12 Age: 26 Location: IN A SEXY NEW CONDO
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:58 pm | |
| ^ Ummm, that is not quite what I meant. |
|  | | fapfapfap Sporkbender


Join date: 2010-04-23
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:20 pm | |
| | Reepicheep-chan wrote: | For me it was like Brock is, visually, just a chrater type that shows up in anime sometimes. I think the intention was for him to be of a darker-skinned asian group, like Fillipeno or maybe Chinese.
Picking out who is what race in anime is often futile, anyways, what with all the blue-eyed, blonde, pale-skinned japanese chicks all over the place. If you start compairing feature of different asian ethnic groups against each other some of the choices make some sense... like Japanese people are among the palest asian people so the fact anime often depicts them the same skin tone as white people makes sense. Their eyes tend to be bigger/ more 'open' than the Chinese, the ethnic group to which they are probably most often compaired, so the huge eyes can be explained that way. The hair colors are often abstracted just to create variety, like, violet, blue, and green are sometimes used to represent different shades of black, a distinction someone coming from an ethnic super-group where pretty much everyone has dark hair would be more sensitive to.
(TL:DR of above: the Japanses may seen dark-skinned and squinty-eyed compaired to white folk, but they are pale-skinned and wide-eyed compaired to other asians)
Blonde and red hair can be used to denote a white person or a mixed-race person or a girl who dyes her hair (which is sort of a character trope in anime, a girl who dyes her hair blonde in Japan is sort of like a girl who dyes her hair pink in the states). Sometimes though it is just a color that the creator picked because they liked how it looked. I think the rainbow colors that dominate anime today started as choices that had story-related reasons behind them, but when brightly-hued anime became popular the visual style just got copied over and over.
Err, that is all pretty tangental... I just find anime interesting because it is easy to see the characters as being white when most of them are not. I tend to assign races to characters now based on a set of visual cues I had to learn when I first started watch anime in Jr. High. When I first started watching it was a mix of non-assigning race due to visual and contextual confusion or tending to think of the characters as white because characters who looked the same way in a western cartoon would be considered white. |
Yeah all of that was very interesting, but... you sure you didn't just make all that shit up from watching too much anime? I mean, I have a friend whose brain has been so thoroughly saturated with the stuff that he couldn't tell anyone apart in the Lord of the Rings movies.
But seriously, is all of this just theories that you made up or have they been substantiated by creators? Because as far as I can tell, characters with blue and pink hair really have absolutely no reason for them to be other than to make them visually interesting because they don't understand the concept of different faces and body types. I didn't actually know that Japanese anime cared much about race, aside from accidentally letting their crippling xenophobia slip out, or when they want to differentiate themselves from Chinese people. |
|  | | Reepicheep-chan Important Person


Join date: 2009-06-12 Age: 26 Location: IN A SEXY NEW CONDO
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:02 pm | |
| Oh, mostly that is just musing out loud. Personal theory based on observation, some from time I sent in Japan, some from watching anime/ reading manga from a diverse collection of genres and time frames, etc. I mean, the part about Japanese people being paler and bigger-eyes than most other asians (well, east asians I guess I am not really thinking about all of asia) is true, except for maybe Koreans sometimes? And I read that the green and purple and blue hair in Urasai Yatsura and Ranma were the results of colorists wanting to differentiate between different characters with black hair, no idea if that is the case in any other manga/anime. But yeah, mostly just musing, not, like, teaching, haha. I know that the whole big-eye thing is an art style and that a great deal of cartoon have bigger-than-normal eyes and the main reason for that is it just make expressions easier to convey, HOWEVER Japanese comics and animation tends to take it to an extreme that is not common in stuff like Disney, which seems a little ironic. I was just sort of throwing out why I thought that may be because I thought maybe it would make for interesting conversation. | Quote: | | Yeah all of that was very interesting, but... you sure you didn't just make all that shit up from watching too much anime? I mean, I have a friend whose brain has been so thoroughly saturated with the stuff that he couldn't tell anyone apart in the Lord of the Rings movies. | To be honest I prefer western animation and comics as a general rule. I think the only anime I have followed at all since my freshman year of college is Shin-chan. I was really let down by Trigun and I get cannot get into that whole genre anymore. |
|  | | Sakurelf Armbiter of Good Fanfiction


Join date: 2009-07-21
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:24 pm | |
| | Quote: | | I think the rainbow colors that dominate anime today started as choices that had story-related reasons behind them, but when brightly-hued anime became popular the visual style just got copied over and over. |
Blue hair = sad / smart
Green = smart / shy
Yellow = shy / happy
Pink = happy / sweet
red = sweet / sassy
purple = sassy / sad
rinse 'n repeat.
EDIT: For non-villainous female characters. Traits vary for evil females, good males and evil males, accordingly. |
|  | | fapfapfap Sporkbender


Join date: 2010-04-23
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:48 am | |
| | Reepicheep-chan wrote: | Oh, mostly that is just musing out loud. Personal theory based on observation, some from time I sent in Japan, some from watching anime/ reading manga from a diverse collection of genres and time frames, etc. I mean, the part about Japanese people being paler and bigger-eyes than most other asians (well, east asians I guess I am not really thinking about all of asia) is true, except for maybe Koreans sometimes? And I read that the green and purple and blue hair in Urasai Yatsura and Ranma were the results of colorists wanting to differentiate between different characters with black hair, no idea if that is the case in any other manga/anime.
But yeah, mostly just musing, not, like, teaching, haha. I know that the whole big-eye thing is an art style and that a great deal of cartoon have bigger-than-normal eyes and the main reason for that is it just make expressions easier to convey, HOWEVER Japanese comics and animation tends to take it to an extreme that is not common in stuff like Disney, which seems a little ironic. I was just sort of throwing out why I thought that may be because I thought maybe it would make for interesting conversation.
| Quote: | | Yeah all of that was very interesting, but... you sure you didn't just make all that shit up from watching too much anime? I mean, I have a friend whose brain has been so thoroughly saturated with the stuff that he couldn't tell anyone apart in the Lord of the Rings movies. | To be honest I prefer western animation and comics as a general rule. I think the only anime I have followed at all since my freshman year of college is Shin-chan. I was really let down by Trigun and I get cannot get into that whole genre anymore. |
Ah k. I mean, don't get me wrong, that's a pretty interesting idea you've got there. I'll run it by some of my weeaboo friends and see what they have to say about it, because I'm actually sort of interested for some reason. Unfortunately...
| Sakurelf wrote: | | Quote: | | I think the rainbow colors that dominate anime today started as choices that had story-related reasons behind them, but when brightly-hued anime became popular the visual style just got copied over and over. |
Blue hair = sad / smart
Green = smart / shy
Yellow = shy / happy
Pink = happy / sweet
red = sweet / sassy
purple = sassy / sad
rinse 'n repeat.
EDIT: For non-villainous female characters. Traits vary for evil females, good males and evil males, accordingly. |
...I'm more likely to think that ^this is more accurate in terms of what animators think when they decide hair color. That is, if it isn't an unconscious, pre-programmed thing for them already. |
|  | | Exodia's Right Leg Shitgobbling pissdrinker


Join date: 2009-08-05 Age: 26 Location: Niggertown, HUAHUEHUAland
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:41 pm | |
| | Reepicheep-chan wrote: | | ^ Ummm, that is not quite what I meant. |
I think I made a mistake with the quoting... |
|  | | Harley Quinn hyenaholic NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-06-12 Age: 27
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:52 pm | |
| Hey, don't forget:
White hair: Supernatrual in some way. Possibly wise beyond their years. |
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