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Mouse Sporkbender


Join date: 2011-01-23
 | Subject: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:48 am | |
| I read an interesting post on Racelicious which discussed how black female characters are the subject of hatred even though some of the non-black characters have committed worse actions. For the most part, I agree with their post, but I think it's not just female characters who are picked on or ignored because of race; black males get the same treatment at the hands of fanbrats. I cite as example Aqualad in Young Justice. Artemis had more fanart then him even before she premiered on the show.
I suppose part of the problem is the Role Model trope. White male characters can be lazy or rude without it reflecting on the white race as a whole, but if you make a black character lazy, people act like you're saying all black people are lazy.
So talk: what issues regarding race have you seen in your various fandoms? Are characters of colour given less attention than other characters? Are they unfairly bashed? |
|  | | Lapin Knight of the Bleach


Join date: 2009-06-10 Age: 23 Location: Maryland
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:25 am | |
| Aqualad is my main gripe right now, actually. I love him, and I immediately skipped off to DA and AO3 to find other like-minded people. And I found almost nothing. He's shipped with no one (WTF?) (...I was only shipping him with Superboy a little bit), while two one-shot villains are shipped like crazy. He has almost zero art, which I don't understand, because aesthetically, he's very interesting. He's dark-skinned with light eyes, which I love, and always looks interesting on paper.
I just don't get it. How is Klarion the Witch-Boy somehow so much more fic-worthy than an apprentice of Atlantis who is the son of a villain and has awesome water powers? |
|  | | Penguin NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-07-19 Location: Wild Gray Yonder
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:37 am | |
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|  | | Eeveegou Sporkbender


Join date: 2009-12-10 Location: Planet Clair
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:50 am | |
| | Mouse wrote: | | I read an interesting post on Racelicious which discussed how black female characters are the subject of hatred even though some of the non-black characters have committed worse actions. For the most part, I agree with their post, but I think it's not just female characters who are picked on or ignored because of race; black males get the same treatment at the hands of fanbrats. I cite as example Aqualad in Young Justice. Artemis had more fanart then him even before she premiered on the show. |
Interesting little tidbit I learned during my anit-bias, multicultural curriculum classes when I was an undergrad. So, as far back as childhood, at least in this country, we underhandedly teach that black is not desirable. Even black children growing up find themselves attuned to this sort of attitude. There have been a hefty amount of child development experiments with dolls in day cares, and between the white, the asian, and the black baby dolls, the white one was sought after and fought over the most, the asian doll second, and the black doll was mostly found tossed behind the stove or thrown under something. Interestingly enough, the black children didn't desire to play with the black doll either. I'd imagine it's this same sort of situation when it comes to writing about black tv characters in fics... it's very sad and very distressing that this shit still goes on today. I can't even imagine growing up black and thinking that my race made me a second or third class citizen. I've got my fair share of white guilt, but one of my biggest goals as an educator is to make everyone's culture welcome into the classroom and shaping curriculum so that it spans the entire district.
Getting off my teacher soap box...
At any rate, no, I hardly ever see fics involving black characters. Shoot, think about FFVII, I hardly would see fics about Barret and he's sort of a main character. |
|  | | Mouse Sporkbender


Join date: 2011-01-23
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:19 am | |
| | Lapin wrote: | Aqualad is my main gripe right now, actually. I love him, and I immediately skipped off to DA and AO3 to find other like-minded people. And I found almost nothing. He's shipped with no one (WTF?) (...I was only shipping him with Superboy a little bit), while two one-shot villains are shipped like crazy. He has almost zero art, which I don't understand, because aesthetically, he's very interesting. He's dark-skinned with light eyes, which I love, and always looks interesting on paper.
I just don't get it. How is Klarion the Witch-Boy somehow so much more fic-worthy than an apprentice of Atlantis who is the son of a villain and has awesome water powers? |
I'm totally with you. Aqualad=awesome. But fanbrats seem to like their characters pale. Another example I want to bring up is Blaise Zabini. How quickly did the fics about him dry up once it was revealed he was black? JK Rowling did say he was attractive, but apparently the fanbrats prefer a racist aryan bully like Draco. |
|  | | Sutremaine Armbiter of Good Fanfiction


Join date: 2009-11-14 Age: 27 Location: UK
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:55 am | |
| Note that Blaise could fit the 'racist bully' part of that based on what we see of him, and he doesn't look like a ferret (not that that seems to matter with Draco). Are there any other HP characters who got a bunch of fics despite being only a name, or was Blaise the fandom mascot for all those in-name-only characters in HP? |
|  | | Penguin NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-07-19 Location: Wild Gray Yonder
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:39 am | |
| So, uh... anyone here want to write some fanfiction about this totally awesome character? | Mouse wrote: | | I'm totally with you. Aqualad=awesome. But fanbrats seem to like their characters pale. Another example I want to bring up is Blaise Zabini. How quickly did the fics about him dry up once it was revealed he was black? JK Rowling did say he was attractive, but apparently the fanbrats prefer a racist aryan bully like Draco. |
He had like, what? Two, three scenes? Four or five spoken lines? |
|  | | Rabid Badger And This is Why I Need Medication


Join date: 2009-06-11
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:52 am | |
| I haven't read Harry Potter, but I do remember that, in the beginning, given the gender neutral name, a fair number of fans believed he was a girl. Was it specifically said he was black before we found out he was a guy, because I seem to remember a goodly amount of Female! Blaise fic existing. Were the fans more inclined towards writing fic about what they assumed to be a black female character, then abandoned him once they found out he was male, or did they know he was black before they found out he was male? |
|  | | Knorg Behind Blue Eyes


Join date: 2009-06-06 Age: 29 Location: Rockall
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:17 am | |
| You guys are yankin' me. "Hey, let's put one over on Knorg." Blaise is actually a guy? What? That's insane. That's impossible. ... Oh god. Oh my god. I've got all these magazines. Oh god.
[/FG] |
|  | | Lapin Knight of the Bleach


Join date: 2009-06-10 Age: 23 Location: Maryland
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:47 pm | |
| | Rabid Badger wrote: | | I haven't read Harry Potter, but I do remember that, in the beginning, given the gender neutral name, a fair number of fans believed he was a girl. Was it specifically said he was black before we found out he was a guy, because I seem to remember a goodly amount of Female! Blaise fic existing. Were the fans more inclined towards writing fic about what they assumed to be a black female character, then abandoned him once they found out he was male, or did they know he was black before they found out he was male? |
Blaise is a boy's name, actually. And he's not just black, he's apparently biracial, a mix of black and Asian. He's describe as being very attractive, and he's also a complete tool. Like the rest of the Slytherins we meet. We didn't know anything about him actually, people just liked his name. It wasn't until Harry actually talked to him that he was given a description, and then he was dropped.
Which pissed me off a lot. It was a pretty damn good example of fandom racism, in that the minute Blaise was something different, he was no longer their favorite Stu.
I don't know why this is though. All the prevalence of Asian-oriented fandoms, and we actually get a fandom with not one, but two Asian characters, and everyone either slut-shames them (Poor Cho) or ignores them. WTF?
A part of me wants to blame Cho's lack of popularity on the fact that Cho's not Japanese, nor is she an immigrant. She's Scottish. I really, really want to believe Cho's lack of fans is from the die hard shippers and not the thing I suspect strongly is also a factor. She keeps being written as stupid too.
Did they forget she was in Ravenclaw? |
|  | | Penguin NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-07-19 Location: Wild Gray Yonder
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:54 pm | |
| | Lapin wrote: | She keeps being written as stupid too.
Did they forget she was in Ravenclaw? |
Really, the Sorting Hat is entirely too subjective. You don't have to be brave to get into Gryffindor or be smart to get into Ravenclaw, you have to want it, over any other factor. Really, Hufflepuff is the only house that you could naturally be sorted into when you don't specifically want something. Gryffindor? Strength and bravery. Ravenclaw? Academic smarts. Slytherin? Knowing how to achieve success at any cost. Hufflepuff? Eh, let's... all get along.
Really, Hufflepuff, despite being painted as the "nice" house is really Apathy House. If you don't want to succeed by brain, brawn, or any other means... well, we'll at least teach you to read spell books before you go and we can submit you as a statistic for our success rate.
Sorry, got kinda sidetracked. Anyway, you can be dumb as a box of rocks, but if you really want to be smart, or for other people to think you're smart, you can be sorted into Ravenclaw.
Kind of a mean hair to split at 11, though.
Last edited by Penguin on Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|  | | Lapin Knight of the Bleach


Join date: 2009-06-10 Age: 23 Location: Maryland
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:58 pm | |
| It really is. But Cho was never portrayed as stupid, just a typical teenage girl, and after Cedric's death, a teenager trying to get over a death.
I just don't get it, I guess. Why does she have to be painted as an idiot? They broke up and now they get along. They're teenagers for chrissakes. They do that.
Hufflepuff gets a lot of shit in fandom for some reason, when I don't see anything wrong with the house. They're about being loyal and making friends, and, above all, trying. Cedric was a Hufflepuff, and he was a clever boy who did really well in the tournament. They're not the useless house, they're just the people who aren't sure what they want at eleven beyond to make friends.
Which doesn't strike me as unusual. |
|  | | Penguin NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-07-19 Location: Wild Gray Yonder
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 4:13 pm | |
| Cho wasn't portrayed as much of anything beyond a crush of Harry's, and teenagers don't really need much more than that.
As for Hufflepuff... let me put it this way. The story's about magic and heroism. The sort of people fortunate enough to be blessed with magic yet still crave the mundane (i.e. wizard Dursleys) are going to be uniformly lame and utterly uninteresting. Spares, if you will. |
|  | | SlayerOfStupidity Drive-by Camwhore

Join date: 2011-01-28
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:20 pm | |
| I see a lot of racism among cosplayers, sadly. Ellie, one of my friends, constantly gets bashed for *le gasp* being a black girl who likes anime, cosplays as white or Asian characters and dresses in lolita clothes. |
|  | | GeorgeUK Sporkbender

Join date: 2011-05-16
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:02 pm | |
| | Lapin wrote: | A part of me wants to blame Cho's lack of popularity on the fact that Cho's not Japanese, nor is she an immigrant. She's Scottish. I really, really want to believe Cho's lack of fans is from the die hard shippers and not the thing I suspect strongly is also a factor. She keeps being written as stupid too.
|
I don't think Cho is Scottish, AFAIK the actress who plays her is part-Scottish, part-Hong Kong Chinese.
If you want to see racial stereotypes in a fanfic, look no further than (yes, you've guessed it) Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness. Apparently all Indians are super-skilled at Yoga, and all Irish people are mighty Celtic warriors who speak like the lucky charms leprechaun. |
|  | | Lapin Knight of the Bleach


Join date: 2009-06-10 Age: 23 Location: Maryland
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:30 pm | |
| | GeorgeUK wrote: | | Lapin wrote: | A part of me wants to blame Cho's lack of popularity on the fact that Cho's not Japanese, nor is she an immigrant. She's Scottish. I really, really want to believe Cho's lack of fans is from the die hard shippers and not the thing I suspect strongly is also a factor. She keeps being written as stupid too.
|
I don't think Cho is Scottish, AFAIK the actress who plays her is part-Scottish, part-Hong Kong Chinese.
If you want to see racial stereotypes in a fanfic, look no further than (yes, you've guessed it) Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness. Apparently all Indians are super-skilled at Yoga, and all Irish people are mighty Celtic warriors who speak like the lucky charms leprechaun. |
With Cho, since she spoke with a Scottish accent in the movies, it's general fanon that she is from Scotland. I know, I know, books =/= movies.
Are you serious about the Dumbledore's Army thing? I hear a lot of hate, and a lot of love for that series, but I never read it. The Patil twins, oddly enough, do not get ignored as much in fandom, though that could be because they're both described as pretty, and there's two of them. Or maybe that's just in the works I'm reading. In any case, that really turns me off to that fic, more than anything else I've read about it. And the Irish thing. I really don't get the Irish thing. Is this fic written by an American? |
|  | | GeorgeUK Sporkbender

Join date: 2011-05-16
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:15 pm | |
| Yes, Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness was written by an American. |
|  | | fapfapfap Sporkbender


Join date: 2010-04-23
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:31 pm | |
| Fandom non-specific observation, but, whenever I see an alien or non-human humanoid race or whatever being depicted, and they're supposed to be beautiful and elegant, they always have extremely Caucasian features and facial structures.
Also, I wonder what the numbers are on fanfic that feature non-white OCs? Somewhere between abysmal to completely nonexistant, probably. |
|  | | Reidmar Shitgobbling pissdrinker


Join date: 2010-01-10 Age: 21 Location: A string of Code in the Interwebz
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:05 pm | |
| I find it hilarious that people try to say that if a character is black, and is one of the main characters, he/she should automatically not get as much time as the whiteys(no offense to any white people here). After there were hundreds of Fandom stories put up with them put up as a 'so and so ethic group here' person.  Then it eventually makes me not care. |
|  | | Harley Quinn hyenaholic NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-06-12 Age: 27
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:59 pm | |
| People are always being jerks to me because I want to have sex with anthros.
If that's not racism, what is?
Oh yeah, the race thing, not the species thing... |
|  | | fapfapfap Sporkbender


Join date: 2010-04-23
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:06 pm | |
| | Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote: | People are always being jerks to me because I want to have sex with anthros.
If that's not racism, what is?
Oh yeah, the race thing, not the species thing... |
That only works when the things you fap over actually, like, exist.
Now, if you were into REAL chinchillas... |
|  | | Harley Quinn hyenaholic NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-06-12 Age: 27
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:16 pm | |
| I don't know about racism, but you know what gets me?
In every gay badfic relationship, there's one 'pure' gay, and one 'bi' who changed their minds when they met their One Twu Wub.
And bisexuals never end up with a girl, even though they could. |
|  | | Sutremaine Armbiter of Good Fanfiction


Join date: 2009-11-14 Age: 27 Location: UK
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:04 pm | |
| | Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote: | If that's not racism, what is? |
People being jerks to you over the colour of your skin. Or, in the context of furries, your species, but as a human you don't have much to fear from racist/speciesist non-humans. |
|  | | Rabid Badger And This is Why I Need Medication


Join date: 2009-06-11
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:57 am | |
| To a certain extent, you got that in Dr. Who fandom. For all the fact they trumpeted about how Martha was the first non-white companion The Doctor had, they really didn't treat her terribly well.
And it always bothered me that after building up the relationship between her and Tom that formed during 'The Year That Never Was,' they eventually paired her with Mickey. Like, it's okay to have a person of color travel with the Doctor, it's okay to have her fall with love with him (of course, he can't return it, because he's still in love with Rose), but it's not okay to have her fall in love with and marry a white man, who's also a doctor. No, lets find the only other male person of color on the show (not counting her father and brother) and hook them up, despite them having nothing in common besides having fought alongside The Doctor.
And yes, I know that it was suggested that the scene 10 saw of her and Mickey fighting Sontarans was a different universe, but is you ask most people who watched the show who Martha eventually married, most of them will say Mickey.
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|  | | Penguin NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-07-19 Location: Wild Gray Yonder
 | Subject: Re: Racism in Fandoms Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:24 am | |
| | Penguin wrote: | | So, uh... anyone here want to write some fanfiction about this totally awesome character? |
Guess not. |
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