HomeFAQRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Goto page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Owlish
Shitgobbling pissdrinker
Shitgobbling pissdrinker


Join date: 2010-03-06
Location: Not giving a hoot.

PostSubject: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:31 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


Quote:
Bradley Manning, the 22-year-old U.S. Army Private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks, has never been convicted of that crime, nor of any other crime. Despite that, he has been detained at the U.S. Marine brig in Quantico, Virginia for five months -- and for two months before that in a military jail in Kuwait

and this article is old, he's now been detained for close to 10 months

Quote:
-- under conditions that constitute cruel and inhumane treatment and, by the standards of many nations, even torture. Interviews with several people directly familiar with the conditions of Manning's detention, ultimately including a Quantico brig official (Lt. Brian Villiard) who confirmed much of what they conveyed, establishes that the accused leaker is subjected to detention conditions likely to create long-term psychological injuries.


Bad military, no cookie.

I admit I haven't followed the Wikileaks thing too closely, and I'm on the fence about it, but this is absolutely insane. Some people are trying to excuse this treatment because it's "military" detention, which makes no sense. Regardless of what he did, torture is not ok.


Quote:
From the beginning of his detention, Manning has been held in intensive solitary confinement. For 23 out of 24 hours every day -- for seven straight months and counting -- he sits completely alone in his cell. Even inside his cell, his activities are heavily restricted; he's barred even from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce those restrictions. For reasons that appear completely punitive, he's being denied many of the most basic attributes of civilized imprisonment, including even a pillow or sheets for his bed (he is not and never has been on suicide watch).


The Pentagon told the NYTimes that it's not solitary confinement because he is "allowed to shout to prisoners elsewhere in his cellblock." Because shouting to people you can't see is totally healthy and sane.


Many blogs, such as this one, also connect the dots between this and the treatment suffered by "foreign combatants" detained under the U.S. military, and really it's only logical. When you can justify dehumanizing the enemy, that same justification can quickly be applied to your own. Certainly didn't take long here.

Bradley Manning's support network is here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
Notanoni
Sporkbender
Sporkbender


Join date: 2010-04-29

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:30 am

Owlish wrote:

I admit I haven't followed the Wikileaks thing too closely, and I'm on the fence about it, but this is absolutely insane. Some people are trying to excuse this treatment because it's "military" detention, which makes no sense. Regardless of what he did, torture is not ok.


Even with the erosions of basic rights that has happened, isn't it still massively illegal (in several different ways) to do this to an American citizen who hasn't even had a trial yet?
Back to top Go down
XLT-100852.0
VileCorp's Muscly Woman-slave
VileCorp's Muscly Woman-slave


Join date: 2010-07-18
Age: 20
Location: interwebs

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:11 am

I am shocked that the military is imprisoning people without a trail. Absolutely shocked I tells ya'.
Back to top Go down
Knorg
Behind Blue Eyes
Behind Blue Eyes


Join date: 2009-06-06
Age: 29
Location: Rockall

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:13 am

XLT-100852.0 wrote:
I am shocked that the military is imprisoning people without a trail. Absolutely shocked I tells ya'.


PUT HIM ONNA WAGON TO OREGON!

Back to top Go down
XLT-100852.0
VileCorp's Muscly Woman-slave
VileCorp's Muscly Woman-slave


Join date: 2010-07-18
Age: 20
Location: interwebs

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:17 am

Knorg wrote:
XLT-100852.0 wrote:
I am shocked that the military is imprisoning people without a trail. Absolutely shocked I tells ya'.


PUT HIM ONNA WAGON TO OREGON!



R.I.P
Peperony
and
Chease
Back to top Go down
Penguin
NO NOT THE BEEEEES
NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-07-19
Location: Wild Gray Yonder

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:58 am

He's getting off lightly.

ETA: Sure is weasel words in here.
Back to top Go down
XLT-100852.0
VileCorp's Muscly Woman-slave
VileCorp's Muscly Woman-slave


Join date: 2010-07-18
Age: 20
Location: interwebs

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:37 am

Penguin wrote:
He's getting off lightly.

ETA: Sure is weasel words in here.

He should be in gitmo, the fukkin terrorist. Paint 'em brown and give him a fake beard. None will be the wiser.
Back to top Go down
Knight
Sporkbender
Sporkbender


Join date: 2009-06-10
Age: 23

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:34 pm

Penguin wrote:
He's getting off lightly.

ETA: Sure is weasel words in here.


I don't know I'd go so far as to say he's getting off lightly, but no matter how you look at it the guy is a traitor. Whether you agree with his actions or not that doesn't change the fact that his actions were still illegal, and releasing military secrets makes him a traitor no matter who he released them too.
Back to top Go down
Lady Anne
NO NOT THE BEEEEES
NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-06-12
Age: 35
Location: The land of the fruits and nuts

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:59 pm

Knight wrote:
Penguin wrote:
He's getting off lightly.

ETA: Sure is weasel words in here.


I don't know I'd go so far as to say he's getting off lightly, but no matter how you look at it the guy is a traitor. Whether you agree with his actions or not that doesn't change the fact that his actions were still illegal, and releasing military secrets makes him a traitor no matter who he released them too.

How 'bout we give him a proper trial before making any judgments?
Back to top Go down
http://www.angelfire.com/yt/anneblair/index.html
Knight
Sporkbender
Sporkbender


Join date: 2009-06-10
Age: 23

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:49 pm

Lady Anne wrote:
Knight wrote:
Penguin wrote:
He's getting off lightly.

ETA: Sure is weasel words in here.


I don't know I'd go so far as to say he's getting off lightly, but no matter how you look at it the guy is a traitor. Whether you agree with his actions or not that doesn't change the fact that his actions were still illegal, and releasing military secrets makes him a traitor no matter who he released them too.

How 'bout we give him a proper trial before making any judgments?


From what I remember of the coverage when this whole thing happened, the evidence seems fairly conclusive that he did it. I realize I don't have all of the evidence on hand to make a judgement, but what I remember seemed pretty damning.
Back to top Go down
Notanoni
Sporkbender
Sporkbender


Join date: 2010-04-29

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:10 pm

Knight wrote:
Lady Anne wrote:
Knight wrote:
Penguin wrote:
He's getting off lightly.

ETA: Sure is weasel words in here.


I don't know I'd go so far as to say he's getting off lightly, but no matter how you look at it the guy is a traitor. Whether you agree with his actions or not that doesn't change the fact that his actions were still illegal, and releasing military secrets makes him a traitor no matter who he released them too.

How 'bout we give him a proper trial before making any judgments?


From what I remember of the coverage when this whole thing happened, the evidence seems fairly conclusive that he did it. I realize I don't have all of the evidence on hand to make a judgement, but what I remember seemed pretty damning.


Yeah but...

American citizen?

Trial?

Sentence?

Any of this sounding familiar?

(Yeah, I know we've done worse to other people, but at least those instances used the "enemy combatant" loophole; this shit is far scarier because it implies that no loophole is needed for indefinite torture and imprisonment of untried American citizens.)
Back to top Go down
Knight
Sporkbender
Sporkbender


Join date: 2009-06-10
Age: 23

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:36 pm

Notanoni wrote:
Knight wrote:
Lady Anne wrote:
Knight wrote:
Penguin wrote:
He's getting off lightly.

ETA: Sure is weasel words in here.


I don't know I'd go so far as to say he's getting off lightly, but no matter how you look at it the guy is a traitor. Whether you agree with his actions or not that doesn't change the fact that his actions were still illegal, and releasing military secrets makes him a traitor no matter who he released them too.

How 'bout we give him a proper trial before making any judgments?


From what I remember of the coverage when this whole thing happened, the evidence seems fairly conclusive that he did it. I realize I don't have all of the evidence on hand to make a judgement, but what I remember seemed pretty damning.


Yeah but...

American citizen?

Trial?

Sentence?

Any of this sounding familiar?

(Yeah, I know we've done worse to other people, but at least those instances used the "enemy combatant" loophole; this shit is far scarier because it implies that no loophole is needed for indefinite torture and imprisonment of untried American citizens.)


Which is why I said I don't agree that he's "getting off lightly". The conditions of his detainment are pretty damn horrible, but detaining a prisoner until their trial isn't anything new. I also don't doubt that they are putting off setting a date for the trial so that they can detain him in this manner longer.
Back to top Go down
Harley Quinn hyenaholic
NO NOT THE BEEEEES
NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-06-12
Age: 27

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:09 pm

This is absolute bullshit. If it's so obvious that he's guilty, why isn't he getting a trial so they can prove it, and then put him in prison legally?
Back to top Go down
http://jackshitville.myminicity.com/
Rabid Badger
And This is Why I Need Medication
And This is Why I Need Medication


Join date: 2009-06-11

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:13 am

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:
This is absolute bullshit. If it's so obvious that he's guilty, why isn't he getting a trial so they can prove it, and then put him in prison legally?


Because I suspect the 'damning evidence' Knight keeps talking about isn't as damning as they'd have us believe. If it were truly that damning, there's no reason why he shouldn't have gone to trial immediately. THEN they could put him in prison and treat him as inhumanely as they wanted because he'd actually have been CONVICTED of something, as opposed to simply being ACCUSED. There IS a difference. Accusation does not=automatic guilt. Or at least it didn't used to. Of course, that was before GITMO and the whole 'enemy combatants can be held forever and ever till they die (assuming we don't torture them to death first by waterboarding them). We have the Bush administration to thank for that lovely little piece of work (which totally violates the laws of the Geneva Convention, which I thought the US was a part of).
Back to top Go down
Owlish
Shitgobbling pissdrinker
Shitgobbling pissdrinker


Join date: 2010-03-06
Location: Not giving a hoot.

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:36 am

Knight wrote:
Which is why I said I don't agree that he's "getting off lightly". The conditions of his detainment are pretty damn horrible, but detaining a prisoner until their trial isn't anything new. I also don't doubt that they are putting off setting a date for the trial so that they can detain him in this manner longer.


Of course detainment is nothing new. If they were simply detaining him prior to a trial there would be no problem here. The problem is the conditions of his detainment. Not only are they "pretty damn horrible," they have been recognized by international agencies and American courts as torturous. And kinda illegal.

Regardless of what the man has done, even if he is a traitor to the US, he hasn't even been tried yet. And even if he had been convicted, this kind of treatment still violates international conventions. This is setting a pretty terrible precedent for the American military to torture its own citizens.
Back to top Go down
Penguin
NO NOT THE BEEEEES
NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-07-19
Location: Wild Gray Yonder

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:35 am

Rabid Badger wrote:
Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:
This is absolute bullshit. If it's so obvious that he's guilty, why isn't he getting a trial so they can prove it, and then put him in prison legally?


Because I suspect the 'damning evidence' Knight keeps talking about isn't as damning as they'd have us believe. If it were truly that damning, there's no reason why he shouldn't have gone to trial immediately.


Actually, they can have all the evidence in the world needed to convict him long before the investigation has really even finished the beginning stages. Manning allegedly leaked classified information, which means they have to go over everything he's ever touched, everyone he's ever been associated with, let alone related to... at this point, it's not even about him. It's finding out just how big of a breach there was, who he may have been working with, etc.
Back to top Go down
XLT-100852.0
VileCorp's Muscly Woman-slave
VileCorp's Muscly Woman-slave


Join date: 2010-07-18
Age: 20
Location: interwebs

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:08 am

Penguin wrote:
Actually, they can have all the evidence in the world needed to convict him long before the investigation has really even finished the beginning stages. Manning allegedly leaked classified information, which means they have to go over everything he's ever touched, everyone he's ever been associated with, let alone related to... at this point, it's not even about him. It's finding out just how big of a breach there was, who he may have been working with, etc.


Doesn't change the fact that he is imprisoned illegally. The founding fathers are spinning their way to China. Goddamn.
Back to top Go down
The Unoriginal
Armbiter of Good Fanfiction
Armbiter of Good Fanfiction


Join date: 2009-06-17

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:18 am

Penguin wrote:
Rabid Badger wrote:
Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:
This is absolute bullshit. If it's so obvious that he's guilty, why isn't he getting a trial so they can prove it, and then put him in prison legally?


Because I suspect the 'damning evidence' Knight keeps talking about isn't as damning as they'd have us believe. If it were truly that damning, there's no reason why he shouldn't have gone to trial immediately.


Actually, they can have all the evidence in the world needed to convict him long before the investigation has really even finished the beginning stages. Manning allegedly leaked classified information, which means they have to go over everything he's ever touched, everyone he's ever been associated with, let alone related to... at this point, it's not even about him. It's finding out just how big of a breach there was, who he may have been working with, etc.


Okay, so how come this didn't happen to John Anthony Walker? The CIA hadn't found out yet that they could get away with it?
Back to top Go down
fapfapfap
Sporkbender
Sporkbender


Join date: 2010-04-23

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:03 pm

Knight wrote:
Lady Anne wrote:
Knight wrote:
Penguin wrote:
He's getting off lightly.

ETA: Sure is weasel words in here.


I don't know I'd go so far as to say he's getting off lightly, but no matter how you look at it the guy is a traitor. Whether you agree with his actions or not that doesn't change the fact that his actions were still illegal, and releasing military secrets makes him a traitor no matter who he released them too.

How 'bout we give him a proper trial before making any judgments?


From what I remember of the coverage when this whole thing happened, the evidence seems fairly conclusive that he did it. I realize I don't have all of the evidence on hand to make a judgement, but what I remember seemed pretty damning.


Uh... Bill of Rights, much? Fucking hell.
Back to top Go down
Harley Quinn hyenaholic
NO NOT THE BEEEEES
NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-06-12
Age: 27

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:10 pm

Also, to detain somebody for up to ten months and more, without trial, is also illiegal. Regardless of any torture at all. If I recall, you can only hold a man for up to 24 hours without decent evidence for what you're accusing him of. Even if you know he did it (he had means, motive and opportunity), without actual evidence you have to let him go.

Quote:
Because I suspect the 'damning evidence' Knight keeps talking about isn't as damning as they'd have us believe. If it were truly that damning, there's no reason why he shouldn't have gone to trial immediately. THEN they could put him in prison and treat him as inhumanely as they wanted because he'd actually have been CONVICTED of something, as opposed to simply being ACCUSED. There IS a difference. Accusation does not=automatic guilt. Or at least it didn't used to. Of course, that was before GITMO and the whole 'enemy combatants can be held forever and ever till they die (assuming we don't torture them to death first by waterboarding them). We have the Bush administration to thank for that lovely little piece of work (which totally violates the laws of the Geneva Convention, which I thought the US was a part of).


Well OBVIOUSLY, Rabid. That's the point I was making.

Obviously their evidence isn't sufficient to convict him, so they're just torturing him until he cracks and confesses to a crime he hasn't commited. If he does crack, they done good in their protection of military secrets. But if he doesn't, they can't let him go now because he'll tell people about what they've done, which is bad for the military.

Or perhaps what he's revealed is in fact that the military has done something illiegal so they keep him locked up for that, which also wouldn't surprise me. Suppose they do have damning evidence for that but to bring it to trial would also reveal their own crime.
Back to top Go down
http://jackshitville.myminicity.com/
Ghost in the Machine
Sporkbender
Sporkbender


Join date: 2010-01-03
Age: 45
Location: Ohio

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:22 pm

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:

Suppose they do have damning evidence for that but to bring it to trial would also reveal their own crime stupidity.

FTFY.

The mere fact that anyone was able to do what has been alleged shows a massive security flaw in military computer security procedures. Part of any prosecution will have to detail exactly how stupid the military was to allow the alleged crime to occur. There will be much Cover Your Ass and more than a few career ending reprimands. Manning is suffering by proxy for these fools, whether he's guilty or not.
Back to top Go down
Knight
Sporkbender
Sporkbender


Join date: 2009-06-10
Age: 23

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:30 pm

fapfapfap wrote:
Knight wrote:
Lady Anne wrote:
Knight wrote:
Penguin wrote:
He's getting off lightly.

ETA: Sure is weasel words in here.


I don't know I'd go so far as to say he's getting off lightly, but no matter how you look at it the guy is a traitor. Whether you agree with his actions or not that doesn't change the fact that his actions were still illegal, and releasing military secrets makes him a traitor no matter who he released them too.

How 'bout we give him a proper trial before making any judgments?


From what I remember of the coverage when this whole thing happened, the evidence seems fairly conclusive that he did it. I realize I don't have all of the evidence on hand to make a judgement, but what I remember seemed pretty damning.


Uh... Bill of Rights, much? Fucking hell.


As I said, he is currently being detained until such time as he can be brought to trial. This is a common practice with accused criminals. His treatment while being detained is the issue, not the fact that he is being detained. His treatment, as I myself said, is pretty fucking terrible, but he allegedly betrayed his country a crime that has never exactly had light ramifications just because the formal trial hadn't gone through yet. I don't support the actions taken, I am merely pointing out that in the case of espionage and betrayal they aren't exactly unheard of.
Back to top Go down
Spotts1701
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Chief Cook and Bottle Washer


Join date: 2009-06-11
Age: 32
Location: New Vertiform City

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:30 pm

Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:
Also, to detain somebody for up to ten months and more, without trial, is also illiegal. Regardless of any torture at all. If I recall, you can only hold a man for up to 24 hours without decent evidence for what you're accusing him of. Even if you know he did it (he had means, motive and opportunity), without actual evidence you have to let him go.


He's already been arrested and charged with the crimes. He's been provided counsel (which he would not if they were still making up their mind whether to charge him or not). At that point, he's remanded over for trial and can be held for 180 days (under the Sixth Amendment) unless special circumstances warrant additional time to prepare for trial.

I'm not taking a position on this, but let's at least do a little fact-finding please...

_________________
My LJ

Gibbs' Rule #16: If someone thinks they have the upper hand, break it.

"Oh, the equipment's guaranteed, but I have my doubts about the stuff inside." - Lt. Commander Montgomery Scott
Back to top Go down
Penguin
NO NOT THE BEEEEES
NO NOT THE BEEEEES


Join date: 2009-07-19
Location: Wild Gray Yonder

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:03 am

He's charged with a capital crime and the prosecution has already stated that they are not seeking the death penalty.

The Unoriginal wrote:
Penguin wrote:
Rabid Badger wrote:
Harley Quinn hyenaholic wrote:
This is absolute bullshit. If it's so obvious that he's guilty, why isn't he getting a trial so they can prove it, and then put him in prison legally?


Because I suspect the 'damning evidence' Knight keeps talking about isn't as damning as they'd have us believe. If it were truly that damning, there's no reason why he shouldn't have gone to trial immediately.


Actually, they can have all the evidence in the world needed to convict him long before the investigation has really even finished the beginning stages. Manning allegedly leaked classified information, which means they have to go over everything he's ever touched, everyone he's ever been associated with, let alone related to... at this point, it's not even about him. It's finding out just how big of a breach there was, who he may have been working with, etc.


Okay, so how come this didn't happen to John Anthony Walker? The CIA hadn't found out yet that they could get away with it?


The Walker spy ring didn't have the Internet.
Back to top Go down
The Unoriginal
Armbiter of Good Fanfiction
Armbiter of Good Fanfiction


Join date: 2009-06-17

PostSubject: Re: American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions   Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:17 am

Penguin wrote:

The Walker spy ring didn't have the Internet.

And neither did Nosenko.
Back to top Go down
 

American Army Private Subject to Cruel and Inhumane Detention Conditions

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Goto page : 1, 2  Next

 Similar topics

-
» In Detention
» Main Terraria Server Rules and Conditions
» Private Tutor
» Private Server Development
» Barney on American Idol?

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Why God, Why? :: Reality :: News-
Free forum | © phpBB | Free forum support | Report an abuse | Free forums