And Genderqueer.
And Intersex.
And and and and and and and and

ALRIGHT OUR FIRST LONG THREAD THAT ISN'T ABOUT SOMETHING BAD THAT HAPPENED TODAY. TO READ THE FOURTY PAGES THAT CAME BEFORE PLEASE [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] LOVE-SHY. THE GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING. -Nihilist

Welp, I'm just gonna address my own points and leave the others to theirs:

SPQR wrote:

I have ended friendships with attractive girls that basically told me that crap; so what she values my personality? but im obviously not good looking enough to date, im just supposed to over look that?

Physical attraction goes beyond just thinking someone is 'ugly' or 'fat', ya know. People get turned on by different things. And yes, if you're going to argue guys MUST date girls who turn them on, then the same goes for girls. Have you ever met a girl who looked like she could have walked out of the pages of Vogue and yet, when you talked, there was just no spark of romantic chemistry between you? Does that mean you think this person has suddenly become ugly because there's no romantic attraction there? Or, since you mention below you only make friends with people you can't be attracted to, does that mean you ONLY make friends with 'ugly women?' Surely you find them not personally attractive to you for reasons other than just 'they're ugly.' Or else you have a REALLY low opinion of your own 'friends.'

SPQR wrote:

Being rejected physically or forwhat ever reason means that girl views you as an inferior, as not good enough, so why bother being friends? Im sure no one can give me a reasonable non shaming answer to that. If she will date you that means she genuinely likes ALL of you, if not she doesnt; as a heterosexual guy, i want a girl who likes All of me, and if she doesnt, well then i dont need her as a friend at all.

Explain to me why not wanting to date someone means you see them as an inferior, then. Have you ever not wanted to date someone because you had different life goals? For example, they want children and you don't? Ever been friends with someone that has nervous habits that just drive you insane to the point where you couldn't make a life with them, but in all other respects, they're a great person? If you love baseball and you have a friend who HATES baseball with a bitter passion, do you break off the friendship because obviously they don't like the baseball loving part of you?

My bestest, bestest opposite-gender friend in the world is someone I KNOW I couldn't be in a relationship with without both of us going bonkers. Does that mean I view him as inferior, or he views me as inferior? Absolutely not. It just means our lifestyles are so different that if we were living together, we'd kill each other. We're DIFFERENT, not inferior or superior.

Going back to this issue: If you DON'T make any woman friends you're attracted to enough to date, does that mean you view every female friend you have as 'inferior' to you? (In addition to apparently being 'ugly.') Ah ah ah! Before you say that's not the case, that I'm twisting your words, look at your own quotes. You are openly admitting by your own standards that since you don't want to date your female friends, you don't genuinely like ALL of them.

Why is it okay for you to be friends with women you don't like ALL of, but it's conversely NOT okay for a woman to be friends with a man she doesn't like 'All' of? Why is it possible for you to be friends with women you don't want to date, but you think it's NOT possible for a woman to be friends with men she doesn't want to date? By your own logic, NONE of your female friends should want to be friends with you if you aren't willing to date them. Aren't YOU just using your woman friends as 'emotional tampons' in that case?

Or can people only be friends with other people they don't want to date that they know conversely don't want to date them in return, in which case, you can only be friends with people you view as inferior to you and who view you as inferior to them. By YOUR OWN WORDS, if 'not wanting to date' = 'sees as inferior.' So if you think I'm using shaming language, so are you. If YOU don't consider your female friends good enough to date, then why should THEY remain friends with you other than to be used? In your own words, again.

You can't have it both ways. ETA: And if the answer actually is 'Yes, all my female friends are inferior to me,' then conversely you must also think *they* think you're inferior to them, or wouldn't they be trying to go out with you? In which case you've just reversed the situation, which you say is wrong when someone does it to you. So isn't it wrong when you do it to someone else? Why can your feelings be platonic, but not theirs?

To address a different poster:
Also using 'female' in this case and saying it's not a charged word would be like saying Negro isn't a charged word for black people because negro means 'black' in Spanish, and black IS an appropriate word for describing African Americans. But that and all the discussion about the original meaning of the word Guy are just derailing. I recommend you google the 'Derailing for dummies" sometime. It's a good article.

By definition, women are not alien;
women are not better than;
women are not cattle;
women are not divine;
women are not errors;
women are not frail;
women are not grails;
women are not homogeneous;
women are not items;
women are not jilts;
women are not killer queens;
women are not loathsome;
women are not marionettes;
women are not nefarious;
women are not other;
women are not property;
women are not quandaries;
women are not robots;
women are not stereotypes;
women are not toasters;
women are not uteri;
women are not vampires;
women are not whores;
women are not xénos;
women are not yin (or yang);
women are not ZOMG the universe's answer to everything, nor are they easily treated as one big group. Perhaps, if you want to engage in a relationship with one, try treating them as a person, yeah? Also, the way I was taught it, relationships take two people. Failing at love might not be entirely your fault, but I sincerely doubt it's justified to let them women take all the blame.

(All of the above can also apply to men.)

JRC, listen. I get what you're saying, but I don't think you're getting what we're saying. Perhaps you just need an analogy, humanoid.

Thanks, Nil.

Cy, don't you know? Transfolk don't actually exist, they're just fairy tales told to scare good christian kids.

"If you are bad, a transexual will visit you and steal your genitals for their skin suit. It's true, I saw it on TV."

"Also, you will get coal for Christmas."

And even if transfolk DID exist, they're all MTF. FTMs are like unicorn farts- invisible and made entirely of magic.

JRCSalter wrote:

If you are female and you identify as such, you should not be offended when called that.

The term wasn't "female", the term was "a female" or "females", as in the NOUN. Get it right, you gigantic idiot.

MEANWHILE SPQR and friend try to pick up women:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] src="[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] width="425" height="350" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" quality="high" scale="exactfit">

Just fucking kill yourself and spare us your whinging.